Understandably, this work flow is kind of annoying, but I wind up coming up with better patterns, I think, than I would with the piano roll editor; I wind up spending too much time trying to remember what note triggers what sound working that way. Unfortunately, there's no way to get realtime midi output from Ultrabeat. So I was just wondering what solutions you guys use for drum sequencing. I think I'm going to download the Geist demo and give it a try; I just really don't feel like learning a new piece of software, since I'm using software less and less lately.
On the gear lust tip, I've been looking at these two bitches lately:
The Jomox Mbrane - single voice analog drum synth
and
The MFB-503, an analog drum machine with programmable voices. I saw one of these at this local store that carries a bunch of refurbished analog synths and drum machines.
I still think the Machinedrum looks pretty rad, but I don't imagine I'd use the built-in sequencer much, so I just want something I can get some ballsy analog drum sounds from.
Also, I picked up one of these lately:
It's a German-made analog 303 clone with midi (just note messages) and a filter you can run external audio through. I saw it on Craigslist for $100. I could hardly find anything about it online, but I went to try it out, and it sounded good enough for a $100 analog monosynth. I can't say how close it sounds to a real 303, but it's certainly a usable piece of kit, and I thought I'd hip you guys to it as I don't think there's a big demand for them, so you might could find it on CL, a pawnshop, Ebay etc.
So while I was agonizing over whether to actually buy a Machinedrum and reading assloads of bb posts on gearslutz etc., one thing ppl kept talking up were the Jomox machines - especially the one specifically dedicated to bass drum sounds, the Airbase? iirc - as the ballsiest nasty analog drum making shitz out there.
ReplyDeleteDrum sequencing - I've been doing it in Live for so long now, that's usually where I go first (especially for the auto-slice-to-drum-rack stuff in v8), though I've been thinking about looking at Ultrabeat for in-a-rut reasons. I also still use the Waldorf Attack plugin for synth drums sometimes, though Ultrabeat is (from what I remember) far superior in terms of the interface making actual fucking sense on first glance.
Thanks for sharing. I did end up getting the Machinedrum, btw - I plan to post on my first couple months' experience with it.
And also, I just noticed the Boss RE-20 today (COSM remake of space echo) and now I'm drooling over that, too.
Also, spacebass33 is a pretty sweet name for just about anything.
ReplyDeleteBrian - i think it's time, and we have the technology. We can build it. The PolySynth Space Ass Goblin. With Very Funky Knob.
Damn, well I guess if you've got a Machinedrum now, you're pretty well set in the drum department. Did you get the one with the sampling option?
ReplyDeleteThe Airbase you mentioned is a rack version of the Xbase888 or 999 which are analog clones of the 808 and 909 respectively. I don't doubt they're heavy as fuck, but those things cost at least as much as a machine drum now. I'm not really looking for hardware to do sequencing on; I'm more interested in just something for sound design. The thing I keep seeing, though, is that most analog drum modules out there are limited to emulating X0X sounds (which are fine, but I can DL samples of those all day) and/or only have a few adjustable parameters for each sound.
I do like Attack, it works and sounds pretty differently from Ultrabeat. The way the knobs work on it is pretty retarded, but the envelopes are super tight and really fine tunable.
Ultrabeat is worth a shot, although I doubt you're missing much since you have the MD. Aside from sequencing, I do like it for punching up drum samples sometimes because it's dead easy to drag a sample in and layer it with some swept noise or a sine thud or something. The sample library it comes with is decent too.
i really like editing drums in live, too. but the sound is so "symetrical" and thin, even if i use old grungy samples. something about the way it all blends together just sucks ass. i've actually taken to bussing drums out through my little shitty mono tube compressor, which has led to some good results, none of them hifi by any means.
ReplyDeletei can't say i've done this, but i've thought about upgrading to a bangin hardware compressor or limiter (the 80's MXR Dual Limiter is the one on my "get rich or die tryin" list) to bus with. i have a feeling that would end all the monkeying around it takes to get the drums tight, like fucking around with logic and plugins and all that shmeg, and lead to a shitload of happy accidents. i'll bet with $500 worth of hardware comp/limiting, you could rock something like a kawai xd-5 or any other janky digital drum machine with midi.
Preamps and Compressors? Hum, me likey
ReplyDeleteThere is some odd shit you can do with hardware gear, both into the computer and back out of it. I have noticed that software programs used different algorithms to render inside the box and live is one that I am not the most fond of the render. Doing outside the box summing, ie taking an 8 channel sound card and instead of running a stereo line out, run each instrument out into a mixer. Then capture the mix from the main outs on the mixer into another capture device (computer/CD recorder/that ½” tape machine that I know everyone has). (that sounds like what Ben is doing on his drums . . . ) You can still automate tracks in the program, but the program isn’t rendering the final bounce, the mixer circuitry is. I have done this one a few projects I recorded, and it worked pretty damn good. You would be shocked how much “better” the mix will mesh together even running summing through a Mackie mixer.
Keep your eyes open on the ebayz for some of those old dbx compressors. You can pick them up cheap and if you use them inappropriately like most of us do when we make funny noises, you can get some odd shit out of them. Even random shit that you never heard of will give you a good variety of flavors to choose from. A good preamp/DI can do wonders for a line in, or to run a stereo mix out of your computer as your mix down. There was an article in a tape op a few months ago that was talking about pulling old transformers out of broken dank mixing boards, wiring them up with inputs, and straight running mixes through that. Dope DI’s (see things with Jensen transforms and lots of the radial gear) can also do wonders.
I read somewhere that a cool trick to do on drums is to buss them, but put different compression settings on the left and right sides.
Random gear I got hard ons for after reading these posts and then hitting up “the candy man” (aka sweetwater) The Joe Meek 3Q is a sub $300 single channel line/mic pre with a compressor on it. The new meek shit has a very colored tone, but misusing it could be hella cool. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/threeQ/ Check out the brick and the Avalon U5 as well. They are $400 and $600ish, but they be top notch and can affect the tone. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Brick/ and http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/U5/
On the complete raw, high fi and “piccha me rollin” tip- the Distressor. $1400 ish for one channel, but one of the compressor settings is labeled “nuke.” I have used this and if I didn’t have so many addictions or needed to eat, I would have like 10 of them. it is the fuckin hot boyz ness- http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ELI8M/
Fuck being hi-fi. Hi-fi nowadays is for hipsters who think that recording everything through high end mics and pres will make their shitty playing sound better. It don’t. I’ll spit beechnut in them fuckers eyes.
Jason, I have a polysynth space ass goblin inside of me right now, and he wants out. I am not even commenting on where the very funky knob is located at. I have pictures of this synth drawn out, I just can’t find any aliens to get the blood for the “underwater out of this world reverb” it needs. The elephant tusks do make splendid keys. I painted that keyboard pastel purple not too long ago . . .
Machinedrum, tearin my body all apart . . . .
Alex: I did get the one with the sampling option. And it does make you plan your samples creatively, assuming you're not just loading drumhits. already got the amen in there. :) the sampling machine has an offset parameter you can lock, so you can do the same stuff with that you could do with e.g. 09XX in Renoise - one track, different offsets to play different parts of the break.
ReplyDeleteBrian, I think you need to completely integrate one of those older (late 80s/early 90s) cheap Roland family 1U reverbs in lieu of alien blood.
The DI thing is correct, though - I've got one of the passive 2-channel Radial DIs, and it is sweet. Never tried summing outside the box, mostly because it means I'd have to unplug everything from my mixer.
And, a friend of mine here in PDX made a (mono) pedal with no bypass that is literally just a super hi-premium Jensen in a box. It actually sounds pretty good.
"I’ll spit beechnut in them fuckers eyes."
ReplyDeletecan't stop lolzing over that one!!!
still lolzing.